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1
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
2 CASE NO. 05-14197 CIV MOORE/LYNCH
3 DENISE HERRMANN,
4 Plaintiff,
5 vs.
6 TOWN OF SEWALLS POINT and LARRY
McCARTY,
7
Defendants.
8 ------------------------------/
9
10 DEPOSITION OF REBECCA BRADY
11
12
Tuesday, May 23, 2006
13 1:59 p.m. - 3:02 p.m.
14 900 East Ocean Boulevard
Stuart, Florida 34994
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 Reported By:
Steven Howard Woociker
23 Notary Public, State of Florida
J. Consor & Associates
24 319 Clematis Street - Suite 208
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
25 Phone: 561.835.9738
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1 APPEARANCES:
On Behalf of the Plaintiff, Denise Herrmann:
2 GARY A. ISAACS, ESQUIRE
GARY A. ISAACS, P.A.
3 One Clearlake Centre
250 Australian Avenue South
4 Suite 1401
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
5 561.655.9300
On Behalf of the Defendant, Town of Sewalls Point:
6 RICHARD H. McDUFF, ESQUIRE
JOHNSON, ANSELMO, MURDOCH,
7 BURKE, PIPER & McDUFF, P.A.
2455 East Sunrise Boulevard
8 Suite 1000
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33314
9 954.463.0100
On Behalf of the Defendant, Larry McCarty:
10 STEPHANIE DEUTSCH, ESQUIRE
LEWIS STROUD & DEUTSCH, P.L.
11 1900 Glades Road
Suite 251
12 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
561.826.2800
13 Also Present:
DENISE HERRMANN
14
I N D E X
15
WITNESS: DIRECT CROSS
16
REBECCA BRADY
17 By Mr. Isaacs 03
By Mr. McDuff 25
18 By Ms. Deutsch 55
19
- - -
20
N O E X H I B I T S M A R K E D
21
- - -
22
23
24
25
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1 Deposition taken before STEVEN HOWARD
2 WOOCIKER, Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for
3 the State of Florida at Large, in the above cause.
4 - - -
5 THEREUPON,
6 REBECCA BRADY
7 having been first duly sworn or affirmed was examined
8 and testified as follows:
9 DIRECT EXAMINATION (REBECCA BRADY)
10 BY MR. ISAACS:
11 Q. State your name, please, ma'am.
12 A. Rebecca Brady.
13 Q. And how are you employed?
14 A. I work for the Martin County Sheriff's
15 Office.
16 Q. In what capacity?
17 A. Deputy sheriff.
18 Q. What's your business address?
19 A. 800 S.E. Monterey Road, Stuart, Florida
20 34994.
21 Q. How long have you worked for the Martin
22 County Sheriff's Office?
23 A. Just over two years.
24 Q. Okay. So --
25 A. Just over two years.
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1 Q. July, 2004, is when you began?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And where did you work prior to that?
4 A. Sewalls Point Police Department.
5 Q. As a police officer?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. How long have you been a certified police
8 officer?
9 A. Three-and-a-half years.
10 Q. Okay. How long were you at Sewalls Point?
11 A. Eleven months.
12 Q. Prior to working at Sewalls Point, were
13 you a police officer anywhere else?
14 A. No.
15 Q. That was the beginning. Okay. You went
16 to the police academy somewhere?
17 A. Indian River Academy in Fort Pierce.
18 Q. Okay. Were you -- do you have to be like
19 sponsored through an agency to go or do you --
20 A. No.
21 Q. -- just go on your own?
22 A. You usually go on your own.
23 Q. Did you go on your own?
24 A. Yes, I did.
25 Q. And when you came out, then you found a
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1 job at Sewalls Point?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Okay. And it was eleven months, you said,
4 you stayed at Sewalls Point?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Prior to going to the police academy --
7 well, let me do this. Share with me your educational
8 history.
9 A. I have an A.S. degrees in police science.
10 Q. From where?
11 A. Indian River Community College.
12 Q. When?
13 A. I graduated May of 2002.
14 Q. Okay. Where did you go to high school?
15 A. Martin County.
16 Q. When did you graduate?
17 A. February of '88.
18 Q. Okay. What did you do between February of
19 '88 and 2002?
20 A. I went to E.M.T. school, the fire school.
21 I was a volunteer firefighter with Martin County for
22 seven or eight years. Um, I worked at various jobs.
23 I worked at Coastal Health Care as an E.M.T. and at
24 Martin Memorial as a SOAP tech. We worked the heart
25 monitors.
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1 I worked at Lifeline Medical Services
2 where I was an E.M.T., and then I became a dispatch
3 supervisor. And I worked at St. Lucie Fire District
4 in the billing office.
5 Q. When did you go to the police academy?
6 A. When?
7 Q. Yeah.
8 A. I started in October of 2002.
9 Q. For the fire school?
10 A. No. I went to the fire school in 1990.
11 Q. Oh, okay. What licenses besides a
12 driver's license do you hold from the state?
13 A. E.M.T. I was a fire safety -- a state
14 fire inspector, but I don't know if it expired or
15 not. I was a state certified firefighter, but that
16 expired in October of 2003.
17 Q. The -- if my math is right, you worked for
18 Sewalls Point for eleven months, and you left there
19 last July.
20 So you began approximately August, 2003,
21 at Sewalls Point? Would that be right?
22 A. July 25th of 2003.
23 Q. Okay. For the approximately eleven months
24 they you worked with the department, how many female
25 officers were there?
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1 A. Just the lieutenant and myself.
2 Q. Lieutenant Tina -- I can't pronounce her
3 last name.
4 A. Ciechanowski.
5 Q. Okay. Were there any other female
6 employees at the police department that were
7 non-certified officers?
8 A. Denise Herrmann.
9 Q. Anybody else?
10 A. Not with the police department.
11 Q. Okay. When you -- during your eleven
12 months with the town, did you ever have occasion to
13 be in the chief's office?
14 A. Lots of time.
15 Q. Okay. Daily?
16 A. Pretty much.
17 Q. Okay. Did you ever have occasion to view
18 anything on the chief's computer screen?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. Any of those occasions that you
21 viewed material of, I'll use the term -- it's
22 extremely broad, and I'll define it for you if you're
23 not comfortable with the term.
24 Did you ever view material of a sexual
25 nature?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Can you tell me what you saw?
3 A. The one -- I don't know if it was a
4 website or an email or -- you know how you can get
5 email with a link? I don't know how he got to it,
6 but there was this one thing that he had that stands
7 out because I just couldn't believe that the chief
8 had it on his computer was a website where you rate
9 the "boobs," and you have to figure out if they're
10 real or fake.
11 Q. Okay. You know, I know you explained that
12 you didn't know if it was an email or a website.
13 Was it an interactive thing where you
14 rated it and you got a response from the click or how
15 did it work?
16 A. I don't remember how it went. It just --
17 just the whole aspect of him having that on his
18 computer blew me away because I knew that if it was
19 on my computer and somebody said something about it,
20 I would be fired.
21 Q. Why did you know that?
22 A. Because you just don't have naked people
23 on your computer when you're with a governmental
24 agency or any agency for that matter.
25 Q. I'll be good. I wouldn't say it's Sewalls
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1 Point.
2 That was the one you said "blew" you away,
3 I think is the term you used.
4 A. That's the one that stands out. I know
5 that I've seen other things like little cartoons and
6 stuff, and I don't remember specifics. That's just
7 the one that stands out.
8 Q. Well, how was it that you saw this?
9 A. He called me in and said, "Hey, come and
10 look at this."
11 Q. Who is "He"?
12 A. Chief McCarty.
13 Q. Did he call anyone else in at that time?
14 A. There were -- I don't remember who was in
15 the office other than myself. Dennie was always
16 there, but he called whoever was in the office to
17 come look at it.
18 Q. Well, at that specific time, you don't --
19 I'm trying to refer to your recollection as to when
20 you were called -- were you called in on more than
21 one occasion to view things on the computer screen?
22 A. It was more than one occasion, but I just
23 don't remember specifics about the other things. I
24 just know that there were other times that he's done
25 it.
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1 Q. Okay. Do you recall -- would you be
2 walking by and he'd say, "Hey, Becky, come see this,"
3 or how did it work?
4 How would he call you in?
5 A. Generally, you'd have to walk by for him
6 to know that you were there.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. You'd walk by his office to go do
9 something out front or whatever, and he'd catch a
10 glimpse of you and go, "Hey, come here."
11 Q. Did you ever hear him call men in?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. Do you know what he showed them when they
14 came in?
15 A. I didn't go in with them.
16 Q. Okay. But do you recall Dennie being --
17 did you ever hear Dennie called in?
18 A. Oh, he called Dennie in all the time.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. He would be in the back of the office and
21 I'd hear, "Dennie, come here."
22 Q. Now, do you know whether he was coming in
23 to show her a naked picture or take dictation?
24 A. I have no idea why he called her in.
25 Q. Okay. Did -- were you offended by --
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1 well, let me take that rate a -- or whatever it was
2 called.
3 How did that make you feel when you saw
4 it?
5 A. I just -- I was uncomfortable in the fact
6 that I worked for a government agency. I was a
7 certified E.M.T. in 1990, so I was pretty much
8 involved in public safety or, you know, just working
9 for government agencies all that time.
10 And you just knew that -- I knew people in
11 -- when I worked for St. Lucie County that had stuff
12 on their computer that some people would think that
13 were -- "Oh, that's not too vulgar."
14 Well, it doesn't matter if it's vulgar.
15 It doesn't belong on that computer, and I was just
16 kind of taken aback that he would have that on his
17 computer and actually show it to the employees.
18 Q. What did you say when he showed it to you?
19 A. Nothing. I just laughed it off and walked
20 out.
21 Q. How come?
22 A. Because you just -- you just don't -- you
23 don't cross him.
24 Q. What do you mean by "You don't cross him"?
25 A. He -- it was just -- even from the day
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1 that I started, you just knew that if you did
2 something that they didn't like -- it was such a
3 small agency and they did their own internal affairs
4 and they did all that stuff, and they could ruin your
5 career if they wanted to.
6 Q. So if I understand you, you didn't
7 appreciate seeing it, did you?
8 MR. McDUFF: Object to the form.
9 MS. DEUTSCH: Object to the form.
10 BY MR. ISAACS:
11 Q. Did you appreciate seeing it?
12 MR. McDUFF: Object to the form.
13 MS. DEUTSCH: Joined.
14 MR. ISAACS: What's wrong with it?
15 MR. McDUFF: Leading.
16 BY MR. ISAACS:
17 Q. Did you appreciate it?
18 MR. McDUFF: Leading.
19 BY MR. ISAACS:
20 Q. Did you appreciate seeing that?
21 A. I didn't fell it was politically correct
22 to have it on his computer.
23 Q. But you laughed. You acted like it was
24 okay and you laughed it off?
25 MR. McDUFF: Object to the form.
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1 MS. DEUTSCH: Joined.
2 THE WITNESS: (Witness nods her head
3 up-and-down.)
4 BY MR. ISAACS:
5 Q. You nodded your head.
6 A. I already stated that I laughed it off and
7 walked out.
8 Q. Okay. Did you ever hear -- strike that.
9 Do you know a Royce Dakis. Do you
10 remember a fellow --
11 A. He was the maintenance worker.
12 Q. Did you ever see or hear Mr. Dakis behave
13 in a way that was inappropriate for --
14 MR. McDUFF: Object to the form.
15 THE WITNESS: I had seen -- I had seen
16 Royce -- where Dennie's seat was located, there
17 was a hallway -- a hallway behind her. And he
18 would grab her shoulders and rub her shoulders
19 and rub up against her as he walked by.
20 And that was -- I mean, with all the crap
21 that I had on, I was huge when I walked by her.
22 I never had to touch her when I walked by. It
23 was just inappropriate. And he'd tell her that
24 she was "fine," and stuff like that.
25 BY MR. ISAACS:
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1 Q. And is that stuff that Dennie told you or
2 stuff you were viewing and --
3 A. No, I heard it and I saw it.
4 Q. Okay. Did you -- did you ever say
5 anything to anyone about that?
6 A. Yeah. I went to the chief and I said,
7 "Have you noticed how uncomfortable Dennie was around
8 Royce because of what he was doing?"
9 Q. Okay. And what did the chief say?
10 A. "I already took care of it." I said,
11 "Well, when was that?" He named whatever day it was.
12 And I said, "Well, I saw it happen again after that."
13 So apparently it wasn't taken care of.
14 Q. Did he have any response to that?
15 A. No. He shrugged me off.
16 Q. Did you ever talk to Dennie about Royce
17 Dakis?
18 A. I asked -- I said -- I had -- I asked her.
19 I said, "You look uncomfortable. Is it making you
20 uncomfortable because I went to the chief about it?"
21 And she said, "Yeah" and she said -- she explained to
22 me. She said, "You have the personality where you'll
23 just tell him basically to piss off and 'Don't touch
24 me.'"
25 Dennie doesn't have that personality. Not
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1 everybody has that personality. I'll deck him. If
2 you're going to touch me, I'll deck you. "Just get
3 off me; don't touch me." But not everybody has that
4 personality. And you have to -- each person, you
5 have to work around their personality to get
6 something resolved.
7 Q. Did you -- besides telling Chief McCarty,
8 did you tell anyone in the city government, the town
9 government, about the Dakis incident?
10 A. I talked to Dan Morris, and I want to say
11 I received a phone call from the town manager. He
12 was an old guy. I don't remember his name.
13 Q. Dorsky?
14 A. That's him.
15 Q. Okay. First, let's talk about Morris.
16 What did you say to Morris?
17 A. I had a meeting -- I set up a meeting with
18 Morris at his home to explain to him about how tense
19 it was in the police department and everything that
20 was going on. I told him about the situation with
21 Dennie and how I approached the chief about it, and
22 he said that he already took care of it and basically
23 wasn't going to do anything further.
24 And there were incidents after he
25 supposedly took care of it and that it was just a
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1 really tense place. I told him, "You could cut the
2 tension in that place. It's just not a good
3 workplace right now."
4 Q. Okay. Was -- did Commissioner Morris have
5 any -- oh, did Commissioner Morris have response to
6 you?
7 A. He told me that he would take care of it.
8 I expressed my concern about losing my job. I had
9 already put in the application to Martin County
10 Sheriff's Office to leave Sewalls Point. And I knew
11 that if I didn't get that job, I was going to be
12 fired. And I didn't want to get fired prior to
13 getting the job with Martin County.
14 Q. Did the commissioner tell you he'd keep it
15 quiet or not tell the chief or what?
16 A. He assured me that I would not lose my job
17 over it and he would not discuss it with the chief --
18 Q. Did you ever --
19 A. -- and bring me into it.
20 Q. Did it ever come to the point that the
21 chief did find out about it?
22 A. I believe it was the next day.
23 Q. What happened?
24 A. The chief came to work -- I worked
25 midnight, and the chief came to work and said, "Come
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1 on. We're going to breakfast. Apparently, we need
2 to talk."
3 Q. Did you go to breakfast?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did you talk?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. What did he say?
8 A. He assured me, "Oh, you're not going to
9 lose your job." Just everything that you could to
10 blow a smoke screen over somebody's eyes to assure
11 them that this wasn't going to happen. I explained
12 to him that Tina has made several comments that
13 whatever happens in the police department is her idea
14 because she's got the chief wrapped around her finger
15 so tight that she just makes it look like it's his
16 idea and it's done.
17 Q. You told the chief that?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Okay. Anything else you recall from that
20 conversation, the chief's response, or anything?
21 A. I know that he wasn't happy with that
22 response. I don't remember exactly what he said, but
23 I know it didn't make him happy.
24 Q. You mentioned Mr. Dorsky gave you a call
25 or something. Tell me about that.
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1 A. He asked,"What had happened with" -- he
2 asked what the Royce incident was, and I -- it
3 sounded to me like he was trying to verify that I had
4 made that statement.
5 And I told him exactly what -- "He rubs up
6 against Dennie; he tells her she's 'fine,' and she's
7 uncomfortable and that it needs to be taken care of
8 and it needs to be addressed."
9 Q. Okay. Do you believe you were retaliated
10 against after this conversation?
11 A. I know I was.
12 Q. Okay. Tell me why you believe that.
13 A. Because I was signed off to get hired with
14 the sheriff's office. I believe it was April 15th
15 the sheriff signed my application saying, "You are
16 going to be hired." And there was an F.T.O. crunch.
17 There were so many people being hired that
18 they didn't have enough field training officers to
19 put them with, so I had to wait until there was one
20 available. Well, all of a sudden, in June -- in
21 June, I get this letter saying, "Thank you for your
22 application. We're sorry. You don't" -- basically,
23 "You're not hired."
24 And I freaked because I knew I was losing
25 my job. The chief told me, "If you don't get hired,
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1 you will not have a job."
2 Q. When did he tell you that?
3 A. I don't remember. It was amongst this -
4 this whole time frame. But he -- I want -- because I
5 think the day he took me to breakfast was a Friday,
6 and then I want to say the following Monday because I
7 -- I remember telling somebody about it and saying,
8 "I can't believe that it's just like overnight he
9 went from 'No, you're not going to lose your job,' to
10 'If you don't get hired, you're not going to have a
11 job anywhere because you will be fired.'" And I was
12 on probation. They could fire me for anything.
13 And I got that letter with Martin County
14 Sheriff's -- from the Martin County Sheriff's Office
15 and absolutely freaked out. I called them and I said
16 -- I called the sheriff, and I asked his secretary
17 why -- "I just want to know because obviously I'm
18 going to lose my job in Sewalls Point and now I don't
19 have one here. I want to know for further reference
20 what happened in the process so when I apply
21 somewhere else, I don't run into this whole problem."
22 And she says -- she asked how did I know I
23 was signed off, and was I sure that I was signed off,
24 and I said, "Yes, and I was told by several people in
25 the agency that I was signed off." And she said that
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1 she would do some research and she'd get back to me.
2 And I received a phone call the next day
3 from one of the majors, and he asked me all the same
4 questions. I explained everything to him, and he
5 said that he would call me back by the end of the
6 week. And by the end of the week, they called me and
7 asked me when I wanted to start.
8 Q. Did you ever find out what happened?
9 A. Yeah. When I got the phone call that I
10 was going to be hired and when do I want to start, I
11 was the bigger person and I gave two-weeks' notice
12 even though I knew what happened. And I called Tina
13 and I said, "I will follow this up with a letter."
14 It was a Friday, "and I'm giving you my two-weeks'
15 notice as of today." She said, "Okay."
16 So I went in on Monday, and I asked the
17 chief if he got my message, and he said, "Yeah. What
18 happened there because I heard you weren't getting
19 hired?" And I said, "Well, how did you hear that?"
20 And he goes, "I don't know. I thought that you were
21 -- they thought that you were under some kind of
22 investigation."
23 And I said, "Where would they get that
24 idea?" And he said, "I don't know. They asked me if
25 I -- if you were under investigation, and I said that
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1 I didn't know." And I said, "You have six employees,
2 a sergeant and a lieutenant, and you don't know if
3 one of your officers is under investigation?" That's
4 pathetic." And I walked out of his office.
5 Q. Okay. Everything has been okay since
6 you've been in Martin County?
7 A. I love it.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. As a matter of fact, when I went for my
10 orientation after I got hired for -- and this is
11 verified. Because I had my ideas and I was told by
12 officers that, "There was a meeting and there was
13 fireworks, and the sheriff was absolutely pissed off
14 that he signed off on somebody, and 'the last time I
15 checked, it said Sheriff Crowder and not whoever
16 else. When I sign off on somebody, they're going to
17 work for me.'"
18 Well, when I went to orientation, I was
19 introduced -- the major came in and introduced
20 himself and he goes, "I know you. And I said,
21 "That's not a good thing." And he goes, "Well, it's
22 all water under the bridge. Just let it go."
23 Q. Did you -- after you spoke to the chief
24 and the other town officials with regard to
25 Ms. Herrmann and Royce Dakis, did it appear from what
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1 you could see that Ms. Herrmann was retaliated
2 against in any way?
3 A. Yes. The amount of time --
4 MR. McDUFF: Object to the form.
5 BY MR. ISAACS:
6 Q. Go ahead. You can go ahead.
7 A. The amount of times that she screamed --
8 that she was screamed at increased.
9 Q. Who would do the screaming?
10 A. Tina and the chief.
11 Q. Did you hear that?
12 A. Oh, you could be in the back room and hear
13 it.
14 Q. Was there a palpable difference between
15 what it was before the Royce Dakis incident and
16 after?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Do you recall -- I guess you were still
19 there. The point in time that Ms. Herrmann made
20 complaints to the officials with regard to -- well,
21 of the chief's actions including what she seen on his
22 computer screen, were you there then?
23 A. Yeah, because she was fired before I left.
24 Q. Oh. You're right. I'm sorry. I'm way
25 off. Okay. We'll get there. She --
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1 A. She couldn't take it anymore. Every
2 morning I would come in -- I got off shift at eight
3 o'clock. She was there at seven, and she'd sit out
4 in the garage area with Gene, and she would smoke a
5 cigarette and he would sit and laugh with her and
6 chitchat, and B.S., and towards the end, you could
7 see how stressed out she was because it didn't take
8 much and she would cry.
9 And you -- I mean, I could make her cry,
10 and I was the nicest one, you know, to her. I would
11 never want to make her cry. But all you had to --
12 you know how when you're so upset and you think that
13 you're okay until somebody says, "Are you okay," and
14 then you lose it?
15 Q. Right.
16 A. That was to the point where she was.
17 Q. Was she getting screamed out at this point
18 in time?
19 A. All the time.
20 Q. Were you ever told to stay away from her?
21 A. Not in so many words, but we were given --
22 we were pretty much told not to go --
23 Q. Well, tell me the words or how you were
24 told. Tell me how you got that impression.
25 A. I don't remember the exact way that they
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1 put it but --
2 Q. Who's "They"?
3 A. Tina and the chief, that "Dennie no longer
4 works here, and you know the circumstances, and
5 you're not to associate with her."
6 Q. Okay. Is that after she was gone?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Okay. How about when she was still
9 working there? Were you or the other officers told
10 not to talk to her?
11 A. I was never told, but I knew other
12 officers were because they would avoid her like the
13 plague, but they never told me.
14 Q. Okay. There was an allegation with regard
15 to the handling of some Christmas money.
16 Do you know anything about that?
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. What do you know?
19 A. I know that there were three checks that
20 were in the chief's desk for quite some time, and
21 they were supposed to be cashed after Christmas and
22 we were supposed to -- the money was supposed to be
23 disbursed and it never was.
24 Q. How do you know there's three checks?
25 A. Kit told me.
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1 Q. Who's "Kit"?
2 A. Kit Downham. He told me that the chief
3 showed him the checks and told him, "We're going to
4 cash these after Christmas, and we'll disburse the
5 money after Christmas."
6 MS. DEUTSCH: Why don't we take a break?
7 (Thereupon, a short recess was had after
8 which the deposition continued as follows:)
9 MR. ISAACS: That's all I have. Thanks.
10 CROSS EXAMINATION (REBECCA BRADY)
11 BY MR. McDUFF:
12 Q. I have some follow-up for you.
13 A. Okay.
14 Q. I don't want to keep you long. If you
15 want to wait until your son comes back in, why don't
16 we do that? We'll wait for a minute.
17 Q. All right. We'll make this as quick as we
18 can to get you out of here.
19 All right. Ready? I take it from your
20 testimony, you didn't have a very good relationship
21 with Chief McCarty.
22 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
23 THE WITNESS: I did at first.
24 BY MR. McDUFF:
25 Q. When did that change?
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1 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
2 THE WITNESS: Um, I could tell that --
3 like, here's an example. We get all this stuff
4 to carry on our belts. God forbid you use it
5 because I sprayed somebody. I had every legal
6 right to spray them, and it was a big to-do.
7 I didn't get -- I didn't get into any
8 written trouble for it because they couldn't --
9 there was nothing that they could write me up
10 for.
11 BY MR. McDUFF:
12 Q. Because it was in compliance to policy, I
13 take it?
14 A. But they just didn't want it done because
15 if I arrest somebody, the crime rate in Sewalls Point
16 goes up, and "We just can't have that."
17 Q. Okay. Any other examples of why you think
18 your relationship with Chief McCarty changed?
19 A. I arrested somebody for resisting arrest
20 because he absolutely refused to cooperate, and it
21 was interfering with a D.U.I. investigation that Kit
22 Downham was doing to the point where he called 911 on
23 me and wanted a deputy and didn't like the deputy
24 that showed up so he called 911 and wanted a trooper,
25 so I arrested him.
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1 What legal right did I even have to ask
2 him for his driver's license? You're not there.
3 What are we, Monday morning quarterbacking? It's to
4 the point that in Sewalls Point, if you work for
5 Sewalls Point, you better hope that if you get into
6 a gunfight, there's a deputy behind you to shoot the
7 guy that needs to be shot because you -- you're
8 afraid to use your stuff that they give you.
9 Q. Were you ever formally disciplined in any
10 way by anybody, either the chief, the lieutenant or
11 anybody else at Sewalls Point?
12 A. They had nothing to formally discipline me
13 on.
14 Q. Okay. So even if you thought they meant
15 something else, they didn't give you any reprimand or
16 anything like that?
17 A. No. I watched and made sure there wasn't
18 any -- I mean I also joined the union. I joined the
19 P.B.A., so if they did, I would have an attorney to
20 back me where nobody else in that department did it.
21 I would -- I paid my monthly dues on my
22 own where I sent -- or I don't remember if it was
23 direct withdrawal or I sent them a check. But
24 whatever it was, I paid my dues through a union to
25 make sure that my butt was covered and they couldn't
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1 find some B.S., but that doesn't mean that nobody
2 else got it.
3 Q. Okay. But in any event, the eleven months
4 you were at Sewalls Point, you were never subjected
5 to any kind of discipline in the form of a reprimand
6 or suspension, leave with pay, leave without pay or
7 anything like that?
8 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
9 THE WITNESS: No, just a bunch of
10 screaming at me.
11 BY MR. McDUFF:
12 Q. Who was doing the screaming at you?
13 A. Tina and the chief.
14 Q. And was that over things like using your
15 O.C. spray or the D.U.I. investigation and things
16 like that?
17 A. If you did something that they didn't like
18 the way you did because they could do it so much
19 better from their house, then you got screamed at.
20 Q. And what was your date of -- that you
21 started working with the Town of Sewalls Point?
22 A. June 25th.
23 Q. Off which year?
24 A. 2003 -- no, July 25th of 2003.
25 Q. July 25th of 2003.
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1 And when was your last day there?
2 A. June 25th of 2004.
3 Q. 2004. All right. Do you know when it was
4 that Ms. Herrmann first made any complaint about any
5 kind of improper treatment she felt she was being
6 subjected to at the Town of Sewalls Point?
7 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
8 THE WITNESS: I don't remember. I just
9 know that it happened because I was there and I
10 saw it.
11 BY MR. McDUFF:
12 Q. And your last day there was June, what, of
13 2004?
14 A. 25th.
15 Q. June 25th of 2004.
16 A. I believe that's when -- it was somewhere
17 in there. I think it was a Friday because I called
18 her on a Friday and gave her two-weeks' notice.
19 Q. And when you say, "Her," who did you call?
20 A. Tina.
21 Q. Lieutenant Ciechanowski?
22 A. Uh-huh.
23 Q. That's a "Yes?"
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You have to remember to answer verbally.
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1 So you were there for a period of time
2 where Ms. Herrmann was out on -- she left the town
3 and -- employment with the town?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Were you there when she returned to the
6 town?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. You were still employed there?
9 A. Yeah, because she couldn't take it, and
10 she ended up leaving again.
11 Q. My question is -- and let me make sure I
12 understand. Were you in the employ of the town when
13 she returned to her employment there on August 2nd of
14 2004?
15 A. No.
16 Q. So you wouldn't have been at the town on a
17 day-to-day basis then after June 25th of 2004; is
18 that fair to say?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. And you weren't at the town around the
21 time of Hurricanes Frances or Jeanne?
22 A. No.
23 Q. You were with the Martin County Sheriff's
24 Office?
25 A. Correct.
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1 Q. So what you observed was only for a period
2 of time between -- well, let me strike that. Let me
3 back up.
4 When was it that you recall that there was
5 some sort of change in the way Chief McCarty and
6 Lieutenant Ciechanowski were treating Ms. Herrmann?
7 You described they were yelling at her and
8 screaming at her, and when did that commence?
9 A. Right around the time that she was
10 complaining about Royce.
11 Q. Around the time she was complained about
12 Mr. Dakis?
13 A. Uh-huh.
14 Q. Is that a "Yes"?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. You got to remember to answer -- this is a
17 little bit different than normal conversation. It's
18 just that you can answer verbally.
19 Do you recall when that was that she
20 complained about Mr. Dakis?
21 A. No, I don't. Like I said, I don't
22 remember. I just remember that -- I know that there
23 was tension around Christmas time especially with the
24 money issue.
25 Q. The only thing you know about the money is
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1 what Kit Downham had told you about the money, the
2 checks being in the chief's drawer?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. You didn't personally observe those checks
5 in the chief's drawer, I take it?
6 A. Not that I can recall.
7 Q. Do you know whether or not Ms. Herrmann
8 ever made any kind of complaint whether she
9 complained orally, in writing, about her treatment at
10 the Town of Sewalls Point?
11 A. I know she complained about it. I don't
12 know whether it was oral or written.
13 Q. And that was explained with regard to
14 Mr. Dakis?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Are you aware of any other
17 complaints Ms. Herrmann made?
18 A. How she was treated by the chief and Tina?
19 Q. Yes.
20 A. She complained about that also.
21 Q. To whom?
22 A. I just don't remember. I don't remember
23 who she complained to.
24 Q. Do you keep in touch with Dennie at the
25 present time?
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1 A. Off and on.
2 Q. Well, how often do you speak to each
3 other?
4 A. Once-a-month, if that.
5 Q. Do anything socially with each other?
6 A. Every once in a great while.
7 Q. Okay. What types of things do you do
8 socially with each other?
9 A. I'll stop by if I'm in the area and visit
10 for a short while.
11 Q. Now, you described there were occasions
12 where Chief McCarty would have things on his
13 computer, and he'd call you into his office for you
14 to view whatever was on his computer, correct?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And he would also call male employees into
17 his office as well, correct?
18 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
19 BY MR. McDUFF:
20 Q. You can answer.
21 A. He would call them into his office. I'm
22 not going to tell you what he'd call them in for
23 because I wasn't in there, but he would call people
24 into his office.
25 Q. Now, one of the things that -- the thing
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1 you talked about, this website, whatever it was,
2 about the breasts, who else was in there when you
3 viewed that on the chief's computer?
4 A. I said I don't remember.
5 Q. You don't recall.
6 A. No.
7 Q. You recall, and I think I typed this
8 correctly, that you recall occasions where Dennie
9 would be in the chief's office and looking at
10 materials on the computer, and you would be in there
11 at the same time?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. All right. And how about in terms of
14 Dennie's reaction? Would she be laughing or making
15 the same response as you from what you could observe?
16 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
17 THE WITNESS: Dennie would laugh at
18 anything. Dennie -- if somebody would come in
19 -- here's an example. Somebody would come in
20 and tell an absolutely stupid joke. I would
21 look at them like they were stupid, and she
22 would be cracking up. They would walk out and
23 she'd go, "That was the dumbest joke I've ever
24 heard."
25 BY MR. McDUFF:
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1 Q. Okay. Did you ever hear her tell Chief
2 McCarty, "Don't show me those things on the computer
3 anymore"?
4 A. No, but that doesn't mean she didn't say
5 it.
6 Q. I'm just asking what you heard.
7 A. No, I never heard her say that.
8 A. Is it fair to say that after June 25,
9 2004, what you know about what happened between
10 Dennie and the chief or Dennie and Lieutenant
11 Ciechanowski at the town is pure hearsay through what
12 you've heard from either Ms. Herrmann or somebody
13 else?
14 A. No, because I saw what Royce did to
15 Dennie, so that was firsthand knowledge.
16 Q. I'm talking about aside from Royce Dakis
17 because you left in June of 2004.
18 A. Anything after that, yeah, hearsay.
19 Anything prior to that with him screaming at her, I
20 personally had heard that.
21 Q. And did you hear what they were screaming
22 about?
23 A. All I heard was screaming. I didn't pay
24 attention to what they were saying.
25 Q. So you couldn't -- you didn't know what
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1 the issue was about what they were screaming?
2 A. With them, you didn't need an issue.
3 Q. Now, you're aware of that fact that Chief
4 McCarty and Gene Simmons both spoke to Royce Dakis
5 about his conduct with rather to Denise Herrmann?
6 A. From what she told me.
7 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
8 BY MR. McDUFF:
9 Q. Did it stop after that?
10 MR. ISAACS: Objection to the form.
11 THE WITNESS: Apparently not because I
12 believe I said I spoke to the chief, and he said
13 he already took care of it. And I said, "Well,
14 it happened after that so apparently it didn't
15 work."
16 BY MR. McDUFF:
17 Q. All right. Then are you aware of whether
18 or not they spoke to him on a second occasion?
19 A. I have no idea.
20 Q. What exactly did you observe Mr. Dakis do?
21 A. I believe I already said that he would --
22 there was a hallway per se behind her chair, and he
23 would go up and put his hands on her shoulders and
24 rub her shoulders and rub up against her and tell her
25 that she was "fine."
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1 Q. How many times did you see that happen?
2 A. More than one occasion.
3 Q. More than five or less than five?
4 A. More than five.
5 Q. More than five. More than ten or less
6 than ten?
7 A. I don't know. More than once is too many,
8 actually.
9 Q. Did you ever become aware of Tina making
10 -- not Tina -- Ms. Herrmann making allegations about
11 the chief and Lieutenant Ciechanowski stealing money
12 that was from the Christmas fund?
13 A. Well, if there were three checks that
14 weren't cashed, and we were supposed to get the
15 money, I would like to know who got it.
16 Q. Well, you're assuming that that, in fact,
17 happened, that what Mr. Downham told you is, in fact,
18 what occurred, correct?
19 A. Yep.
20 Q. So if it didn't occur then --
21 A. Kip had no reason to lie to us.
22 Q. What I'm saying is, if that didn't happen,
23 then your information would be mistaken; would it
24 not?
25 A. If it didn't happen.
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1 Q. If it didn't happen, you'd be mistaken.
2 All right.
3 And were you aware that Chief McCarty and
4 Lieutenant Ciechanowski were upset with Ms. Herrmann
5 because she made an allegation that they had stolen
6 money from the Christmas fund?
7 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
8 THE WITNESS: Yep.
9 BY MR. McDUFF:
10 Q. You were aware of that?
11 A. Yep. We were all pissed off at them.
12 Q. No. I'm talking about, you're aware that
13 Chief McCarty and Lieutenant Ciechanowski being angry
14 with Ms. Herrmann because she made that allegation
15 against them that they had stolen money from the
16 Christmas fund?
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. Is that a "Yes"?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And that was the reason that they were
21 being not so kind to Ms. Herrmann, wasn't it?
22 A. No.
23 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
24 BY MR. McDUFF:
25 Q. Okay. What would that have been then?
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1 What was your opinion as to why they were screaming
2 or yelling at Ms. Herrmann between the time she made
3 her complaint and the time you left in June of 2004?
4 A. Like I said, you didn't need a reason. I
5 got screamed and yelled at, and I didn't have to do
6 anything.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. So it didn't matter. It was whatever mood
9 that they were in, you were going to be the wrath of
10 their whatever.
11 Q. So there were equal opportunity factors
12 with regard to their --
13 MR. ISAACS: Objection.
14 BY MR. McDUFF:
15 Q. -- bad disposition, I take it? Is that
16 fair to say?
17 A. No, because a lot of it -- Dennie was
18 there all day long. She got it non-stop all day
19 long.
20 Q. So is it your testimony that it just
21 depended upon the mood and not necessarily any
22 complaints she may have made?
23 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
24 THE WITNESS: No, because it got worse
25 after the complaints were made.
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1 BY MR. McDUFF:
2 Q. Are you aware of the fact, it may have
3 gotten worse because she accused them of stealing
4 money?
5 A. Nope.
6 Q. You're not aware of that?
7 A. No. I'm saying that's not my opinion. My
8 opinion is because she made a complaint against Royce
9 Dakis, and they chose not to take care of a sexual
10 harassment problem within the police department and
11 take care of it appropriately.
12 And actually, I believe, that that kind of
13 reflects on me. I went to them and told them to take
14 care of a sexual harassment problem within the police
15 department, and that makes me a third-party victim
16 because it wasn't taken care of.
17 Q. So you feel that was their motivation
18 because she had -- the issue came up about Royce, and
19 it was pointed out that she didn't feel that they had
20 taken care of it adequately?
21 A. They didn't take care of it adequately.
22 He still had a job, and he was still touching her.
23 Q. Well, he was -- he's no longer employed at
24 the town, is he?
25 A. No. I believe he got caught smoking "pot"
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1 after that.
2 Q. So you've learned that through what
3 source?
4 A. I don't remember who told me that.
5 Q. And that's actually hearsay, is it not?
6 A. Yep.
7 Q. Did Dennie ever complain to you about the
8 way she felt she was being treated by Mr. Dakis?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And what did she tell you about the way
11 she felt she was being treated by Mr. Dakis?
12 A. It made her uncomfortable, and she wished
13 he would leave her alone.
14 Q. Did she tell you that she thought she was
15 being sexually harassed by Mr. Dakis?
16 A. I don't know if she used those words, but
17 those words don't need to be used. You don't touch
18 somebody. If somebody -- like I said, if you walked
19 up to me and you touched me in a way I felt
20 uncomfortable, I'd either hit you or tell you to take
21 off and leave me alone.
22 Dennie does not have that personality.
23 And if you do that again after that and if it wasn't
24 taken care of within our agency where you were
25 disciplined, then I can guarantee you there would be
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1 all kinds of hell raised because it just -- you
2 don't do that. You don't touch people.
3 Q. Well, if you saw Mr. Dakis touch
4 Ms. Herrmann, it would have been battery, would it
5 not, if it wasn't invited?
6 A. Yep.
7 Q. And did you ever speak to or arrest
8 Mr. Dakis for what he was doing, the unwanted
9 touching, being committed in your presence?
10 A. I went to the chief to have him take care
11 of his problems within his agency.
12 Q. That wasn't my question. My question was,
13 did you ever attempt to arrest Mr. Dakis for his
14 commission of an unlawful battery upon the person of
15 Ms. Herrmann?
16 MR. ISAACS: Objection to the question you
17 specifically asked. Objection to --
18 BY MR. McDUFF:
19 Q. You can answer.
20 A. I was a new officer, and I didn't know all
21 the loopholes that you could do to arrest people for,
22 and if I knew I could have arrested him for battery,
23 then I would have because I know that I could have --
24 Dennie would have filled out a witness statement for
25 me.
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1 Q. Well, you went to the police academy in
2 Indian River County?
3 A. No, I didn't.
4 Q. Where did you go to the police academy?
5 A. In St. Lucie County.
6 Q. St. Lucie County. And one of the things
7 they teach in the police academy is the exceptions to
8 a warrant for misdemeanor offenses, don't they?
9 A. Yes, they do.
10 Q. But your testimony is at that point in
11 time, you didn't know you could have arrested
12 Mr. Dakis?
13 A. No. What I said was, at that point in
14 time, I was a new officer and just as when you first
15 became a lawyer, you had to learn all kinds of things
16 and things didn't pop into your head right away and
17 go, "Oh, I know that; I can do that because this
18 happened."
19 Q. Now, you were asked about in reference to
20 what you may have seen on Chief McCarty's computer
21 screen and you remember the one.
22 You don't have any recollection of any
23 other particular thing that you saw on his computer
24 screen?
25 A. I said that was the one that stood out the
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1 most.
2 Q. All right.
3 A. There were a lot. I don't have like a
4 file cabinet in my head that I would remember
5 everything they had on the computer.
6 Q. Did you ever just refuse to go into his
7 office and say, "Look, I don't want to; I'm busy"?
8 A. No.
9 Q. How come?
10 A. Because I wasn't going to get the wrath of
11 Chief McCarty after that.
12 Q. He didn't order you to come into his
13 office, did he?
14 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
15 THE WITNESS: No, but if your boss calls
16 you into his office and you told him, "No" --
17 BY MR. McDUFF:
18 Q. So the answer to the question is, you were
19 never ordered by Chief McCarty to go into his office?
20 A. He called me into his office.
21 MR. ISAACS: Objection; argumentative.
22 BY MR. McDUFF:
23 Q. Okay. Do you recall as you sit here any
24 other specific materials you may have seen on the
25 chief's computer?
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1 MR. ISAACS: Objection; asked and answered
2 twice.
3 THE WITNESS: Three times.
4 MR. ISAACS: Three times.
5 BY MR. McDUFF:
6 Q. It may be four before we're done, but go
7 ahead.
8 A. I don't remember any other specific
9 things.
10 Q. Do you recall anything of any -- materials
11 on the chief's computer if anybody other than the
12 ones with the breasts -- if anybody was either
13 partially or fully disrobed?
14 A. I'm sure that there was. I don't remember
15 any specifics, I already said.
16 Q. Did you ever keep a diary of things that
17 were --
18 A. No, I didn't.
19 Q. Did Dennie ever tell you that she thought
20 she was being harassed or discriminated against by
21 Chief McCarty?
22 A. She didn't use those words, but she felt
23 that she was being retaliated against.
24 Q. But that was after she made a complaint,
25 correct, about Royce Dakis?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Prior to that time, did she ever tell you
3 that "Well, the chief had shown me things on the
4 computer that I find to be offensive, and I don't
5 know what to do about it"?
6 A. No.
7 Q. In fact, the only thing you observed is
8 that Dennie would be in the chief's office if you
9 were in there and whatever was on the computer, she'd
10 be laughing along with it?
11 A. Like I said, Dennie will laugh at
12 anything.
13 Q. But in your presence, she certainly never
14 expressed her displeasure of whatever was on the
15 computer, did she?
16 A. No. I didn't express mine, either.
17 Q. But I'm not asking what you did but what
18 Ms. Herrmann did.
19 She didn't express her displeasure, did
20 she?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Just so I'm clear on something here, your
23 testimony is that you got some sort of confirmation
24 from Martin County Sheriff's Office that you were
25 going to be hired, and then all of sudden, you got a
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1 letter saying -- stated, "Thanks for your
2 application," you know, and what else did that letter
3 say?
4 A. I don't remember. If I'd a known, I would
5 have brought it. It said, pretty much, "Thank you
6 for your application. You have to wait another year
7 to apply again," and they found somebody more
8 qualified.
9 Q. And that's when you placed a call to the
10 chief's office -- or to the sheriff's office --
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. - to find out what was going on.
13 Had you, prior to that time getting that
14 letter --
15 A. No.
16 Q. Just let me finish. Prior to that time
17 getting that letter saying, "Thanks, you have to wait
18 another year," had you gotten any kind of written
19 confirmation from the sheriff's office that you were
20 going to be hired?
21 A. No. I didn't need it.
22 Q. That's not my question. The answer is,
23 "No, I didn't," correct?
24 A. No. My answer is I didn't need it.
25 Q. Well, I'll ask you this: Did you receive
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1 -- regardless of whether you needed it, did you
2 receive any written confirmation prior to receiving
3 that letter saying, "Thanks, but you have to wait for
4 a year"?
5 MR. ISAACS: Objection; repetitive.
6 BY MR. McDUFF:
7 Q. Did you ever receive anything stating that
8 you were going to be hired --
9 MR. ISAACS: Same objection.
10 BY MR. McDUFF:
11 Q. -- or being offered a conditional offer of
12 employment from the sheriff's office?
13 MR. ISAACS: Same objection.
14 THE WITNESS: I received a phone call
15 telling me I was signed off by the sheriff.
16 BY MR. McDUFF:
17 Q. Okay. From whom?
18 A. People in human resources and several
19 deputies and people that did background checks.
20 Q. Do you remember the names of any of these
21 people?
22 A. Some.
23 Q. Well, do you know -- do you understand the
24 way it works in the police department that you get a
25 conditional offer of employment before you go through
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1 the physical and the background investigation, the
2 polygraph?
3 A. Yeah, I know how it works.
4 Q. Okay. Did you ever receive a conditional
5 offer of employment in writing prior to receiving the
6 letter saying "Thanks. You'll have to wait for a
7 year before you can apply"?
8 A. No.
9 Q. So you're knowledge about -- you've been
10 hired was a -- some sort of communication you had
11 with personnel at the sheriff's office?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Were you ever told that your job offer was
14 conditional upon your passing successfully a physical
15 and a polygraph --
16 A. I was told --
17 Q. -- let me finish my question --
18 successfully passing a polygraph or background
19 investigation or a physical examination?
20 A. I was told that I was signed off by the
21 sheriff, and as soon as they had an F.T.O. available,
22 I would be hired.
23 Q. And when was that? When were you told
24 that as soon as they had an F.T.O. available that
25 you'd be hired?
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1 A. In April.
2 Q. You were told that in April of 2004?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. At that point in time, had you already
5 tendered your resignation to the --
6 A. No, I did not.
7 Q. -- Town of Sewalls Point?
8 When did you tender your resignation to
9 the Town of Sewalls Point?
10 A. As I already stated, when I got the phone
11 call stating that I have a hire date.
12 Q. Okay. And that was before you had
13 anything in writing confirming that?
14 Is that fair to say?
15 A. Actually, you know what? Back up.
16 Because I had already had gone through my psych. test
17 and my physical and everything because the sheriff
18 needs to see it. They do your background and
19 everything. The sheriff needs to see that because as
20 soon as I got my hire date, I went to work.
21 Q. Okay. What was your official hire date
22 with the sheriff's office?
23 A. July 1st.
24 Q. July 1st of 2004?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. And your last day with the town was June
2 25, 2004?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. And was it intended you would have a week
5 off before you went --
6 A. My intention was to give exactly
7 two-weeks' notice because I wasn't going to stay
8 there a minute longer than I had to.
9 Q. And why is that?
10 A. Because I was not going to sit there and
11 listen to the crap from the chief or the lieutenant.
12 Q. All right. What kind of "crap" are you
13 talking about?
14 A. The retaliation, the yelling and the
15 screaming and just the whole tension thing. I wasn't
16 going to subject myself to any more of that. And I
17 would have just quit on the spot, but I was going to
18 be the bigger person and I gave my two-weeks' notice.
19 Q. Was there any kind of internal affairs
20 complaint pending against you at this point in time
21 or any administrative investigation or anything like
22 that?
23 A. No, there wasn't, but, apparently, Chief
24 McCarty wasn't quite sure. Apparently, six people
25 are too many to -- for him to oversee because he's
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1 not quite sure.
2 Q. Well, that's what I want to ask you about
3 for a second so I understand you. Your testimony is,
4 if I recall, that you got that letter from the
5 sheriff's office saying that you had to wait for a
6 year, and then you called to the sheriff's office to
7 find out what was going on.
8 And then you had a conversation with Chief
9 McCarty?
10 A. After I gave my notice to Tina.
11 Q. Okay. Tell me what --
12 A. I went to the chief's office, and I asked
13 him if he got my message about my giving my
14 two-weeks' notice.
15 Q. And what did he say?
16 A. He said something to the effect of, "Yeah,
17 what happened there? I heard you weren't going to
18 get hired."
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. And that's when he went into the whole
21 investigation -- "They asked me if there was an
22 investigation against you, and I told them I didn't
23 know." That whole thing that I testified to already.
24 Q. I just want to make sure I'm clear. He
25 stated to you that they -- the sheriff's office
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1 called him about whether or not there were any
2 investigations pending against you at that point in
3 time, and he stated that he didn't know?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And your statement to him was -- in
6 response was, "How the heck can you not know,"
7 basically?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And what did he say to that?
10 A. I don't know. I walked out after I told
11 him that was pathetic.
12 Q. Do you remember the date that -- what the
13 date was that you gave the chief for -- or gave
14 Lieutenant Ciechanowski your two-weeks' notice?
15 A. It was on a Friday. Do you have a 2004
16 calander?
17 Q. Not off the top of my head.
18 A. I might. No, I don't.
19 Q. And in any event, it was a Friday, and
20 your last day of work for the Town of Sewalls Point
21 was on a Friday, as well?
22 A. Yes. It was June 11th.
23 MR. ISAACS: We just now found a 2004
24 calander apparently.
25 MR. McDUFF: With the assistance of your
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1 client.
2 THE WITNESS: June 11th -- anyway, I got a
3 2004 calander.
4 BY MR. McDUFF:
5 Q. Okay. All right.
6 A. And it was June 11th.
7 Q. June 11th is when you gave your notice?
8 A. Yeah, over the phone.
9 Q. Over the phone. And why did you do it
10 over the phone instead of in person?
11 A. I think I was off that day, and I wanted
12 to give it as soon as I had the chance to.
13 Q. And when was it in relation to your giving
14 notice on June 11, 2004, that you received some sort
15 of verbal confirmation that you were going to be
16 hired by the sheriff's office?
17 A. As soon as I hung up the phone, I called
18 Tina and quit.
19 Q. When you were hired by Sewalls Point, did
20 you get a written offer of employment or a verbal
21 offer of employment?
22 A. Written.
23 Q. So you didn't wait to make sure that --
24 okay. You're telling us it's true, the fact they
25 were going to hire you and you'd wait for some kind
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1 of written confirmation of that?
2 A. Yeah. That's why I didn't give my
3 two-weeks' notice back in April.
4 Q. I'm sorry. I missed that.
5 A. That's why I didn't give my two-weeks'
6 notice back in April.
7 Q. Oh, back in April.
8 A. Right. I waited until I got actually a
9 verbal over the phone that, "When would you like to
10 start?" And then I called Tina. And I got my
11 written offer of employment -- written thing saying
12 that I'm hired -- as a matter of fact, I don't even
13 know if I got a written thing saying I'm hired. I
14 think it was all verbal over the phone.
15 Q. You might not work there.
16 MR. McDUFF: All right. I don't think I
17 have any further questions right now.
18 Do you have any questions?
19 CROSS EXAMINATION (REBECCA BRADY)
20 BY MS. DEUTSCH:
21 Q. Do you know who Ed Arnold was? Were you
22 employed at Sewalls Point when he was the building
23 official?
24 A. Uh-uh, no.
25 Q. Well, when he retired, were you there when
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1 he was given a going-away party?
2 A. No. Gene was there when I was there.
3 Q. Okay. When you were with the Sewalls
4 Point Police Department, did the department have a
5 custom of receiving birthday cards for everybody?
6 When it was your birthday, did you get a
7 card signed by everybody in the police department?
8 A. Probably.
9 Q. Do you recall signing cards for other
10 officers within the police department while you were
11 there, birthday cards?
12 A. I'm almost positive I've signed birthday
13 cards.
14 Q. Do you recall any of the birthday cards
15 being of a sexual nature?
16 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form.
17 THE WITNESS: I don't remember what they
18 said.
19 BY MS. DEUTSCH:
20 Q. Mr. McDuff was asking you about receiving
21 phone calls from Martin County Sheriff's Department
22 employees regarding your being conditionally hired,
23 and I think you said you got calls from the H.R.
24 department and from several deputies?
25 A. No, I didn't say I got phone calls. I
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1 said I spoke to them.
2 Q. Oh, you called them?
3 A. I called human resources, and they told
4 me, "Yes, you were signed off by the sheriff" on
5 such-and-such a date. And April 15th sticks in my
6 head because I had been calling and saying, "Did you
7 sign off on me yet; did you sign off on me yet?" And
8 she said, "No. Keep calling back; keep calling
9 back," so I did.
10 Q. Who did you speak to?
11 A. Karen Williams.
12 Q. Is that the person in the H.R. department?
13 A. She was at that time.
14 Q. She's no longer employed with the
15 department?
16 A. No. She's just not in that office
17 anymore. I think she works in the corrections
18 offices.
19 Q. Now, I thought you said that you received
20 phone calls from deputies.
21 A. I spoke to deputies.
22 Q. You spoke to deputies. Again, you placed
23 the calls to the deputies --
24 A. No.
25 Q. -- regarding your conditional employment?
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1 A. No, they were face-to-face.
2 Q. All right. Who did you speak to
3 face-to-face?
4 A. There were several. The one person that I
5 know that I spoke to was Detective Gary Bock because
6 I called him and I asked him what happened also, and
7 I left a message for him.
8 And he called me back, and he said he had
9 no idea what was going on because as far as he was
10 concerned, I was already hired. He had known I was
11 already hired.
12 Q. So was that in person you spoke to him or
13 over the phone?
14 A. That -- him, I called on the phone because
15 he was the one that did my background. He wasn't on
16 the road for me to talk to.
17 Q. Who did you talk to in person?
18 A. There were a few there. I don't recall
19 every single deputy that I talked to.
20 Q. Give me the names that you do recall.
21 A. I know that I talked to Tony Dalen and
22 Doug Moore after I had found out that I got my job
23 back, or not that -- that I had received a phone call
24 that I was going to have -- I have a hire date.
25 Q. Is Doug Moore still with the Martin County
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1 Sheriff's Office?
2 A. Yes, he is.
3 Q. Is Tony Dalen?
4 A. Yes, he is.
5 Q. How about Detective Gary Bock? Is he
6 still with the Martin --
7 A. Yes, he is.
8 Q. Do recall any other names of who you spoke
9 with?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Did you ever hear Ms. Herrmann ask Chief
12 McCarty to send any of the emails to her?
13 A. No, I didn't.
14 Q. You're aware that Ms. Herrmann made an
15 allegation against Chief McCarty and Lieutenant
16 Ciechanowski regarding the Christmas fund and
17 stealing the money; is that right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. And are you also aware that Chief
20 McCarty and Lieutenant Ciechanowski were upset by
21 that allegation of being accused of stealing money?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And how would you feel if you were falsely
24 accused of stealing money?
25 MR. ISAACS: Objection to form. She never
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1 said that it was false.
2 MR. DEUTSCH: I'm asking.
3 THE WITNESS: I would be upset.
4 MR. DEUTSCH: Thank you. I don't have any
5 other questions.
6 MR. ISAACS: Do you read or waive?
7 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry?
8 MR. ISAACS: You have the opportunity --
9 you have the opportunity when it's transcribed,
10 which it will be, to read it for accuracy, or
11 you could waive that right, which most people
12 waive, but police officers read.
13 THE WITNESS: I want to read it.
14 THE COURT REPORTER: You want this written
15 up?
16 MR. ISAACS: I need it electronically
17 ASAP.
18 THE COURT REPORTER: Expedited. How
19 quick?
20 MR. ISAACS: I need it by Thursday.
21 MS. DEUTSCH: I don't need a copy.
22 THE COURT REPORTER: Counsel, same thing,
23 by Thursday?
24 MR. McDUFF: Fine.
25 MR. ISAACS: If I give you my address you
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1 can electronically get it to me?
2 THE COURT REPORTER: Yes.
3 MR. ISAACS: It's gaissacs@bellsouth.net.
4 THE COURT REPORTER: You'd like it also by
5 email?
6 MR. McDUFF: That will be fine. Let me
7 give you mine; rmcduff@jambg.com.
8 (Thereupon, the deposition concluded at
9 3:02 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF ST. LUCIE )
5
I, the undersigned authority, certify that
6 the aforementioned witness, REBECCA BRADY, personally
appeared before me and was duly sworn.
7
Dated this 24th day of May, 2006.
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